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Domagoj Juretic - Thu, Jan 24 2008 03:08 pm

With the proviso that this proposal not be implemented before the new rating requirement package is implemented as a whole and provided HAGAR completion be listed on our membership cards,

Do you approve of the following IAC recommendations?

1-HAGAR related related questions will be included in all levels of rating exams.
2- We recommend that HPAC/ACVL does not administer the Transport Canada HAGAR exam
3 -We urge the Board of Directors to take immediate action with Transport Canada to make the HAGAR exam more readily available and less expensive. Some reports suggest a very high price to even write the exam.
4 -That a list of all invigilating stations for the hagar exam be put on our hpac/acvl website and encourage the regional associations to do the same.
5 -That the HAGAR requirement be removed from the Intermediate Rating once clause 1 has been implemented.


1 - Exams will include questions applicable to all levels of rating.
2 - too expensive and cumbersome. Andre feels that we would not be able to satisfy TC's stringent security protocols
3 - self explanatory
4 - Andre is of he opinion that such a list would soon become very dated and that TC will not feel compelled to keep it current. Hence the reliance on local knowledge at the regional level to keep the pilot community informed.

-There was concern expressed that by removing the hagar as a condition of a rating we might be encouraging more pilots to fly illegally in controlled airspace.
-It was also recognized that if we include hagar related questions into all levels of examination that we will be making Transport Canada regulatory concerns more a part of everyday pilots training and life.
-We're not sure how this will impact competition but expect that all comps will continue to require hagar when the comps impact controlled air space.

Amir Izadi - Fri, Jan 25 2008 03:45 am

I'm in favour of 1-4 but believe we need to hear directly from TC before removing it entirely from our exams.

If only 10 people get take the HAGAR in the next 5 years, won't TC wonder if we're not circumventing their examination which they set up specifically for us?

I think we really need to hear from TC, before implementing item 5.

Domagoj Juretic - Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:58 am

It was HPAC's decision to have it tied to the Intermediate rating. TC can't ask us for more than promoting the fact that all pilots flying in controled air aspace do so with the HAGAR. They actually should be happy that we are making HAGAR accessible to all pilots regardless of the rating.

This is actually the only change we could make that didn't require their consent. Any other option that would have required their consent, could have taken months or even years to obtain, if at all possible. With the HAGAR still tied to the Intermediate rating, a late an foreseen answer from TC could have had repercussions on our whole rating system, forcing us into another review. Big headache!

Our HAGAR content in our exams is voluntary, so out of reach from TC's whims, that is until we get the guts to say to them that our system of testing airspace regs knowledge is well established and reliable, and that it could replace the HAGAR. We'll see in a couple of years.

Brendan McCaskill - Sat, Jan 26 2008 07:07 pm

The problem with the HAGAR as a requirement of the Intermediate is that it requires members to sign a legally significant medical declaration. This disqualifies anyone unable to sign from holding higher than a Novice certification despite the fact that they might be quite content to fly in uncontrolled airspace, and able to do so safely. We have no right to make this determination.

In the case of tandem pilots, however, I would tend to agree that HPAC should be requiring that pilots conform to the same medical standard as UL pilots with an instructor rating or passenger carrying endorsement. Yet another of our mass of liability exposures.


Do you approve of the following IAC recommendations?

  • Yes (5)
    • 2008-01-24 15:08:52 Domagoj Juretic - Quebec
    • 2008-01-24 21:19:30 Michael Fuller - Atlantic Canada
    • 2008-01-24 23:00:42 Bruce Busby - Alberta & NWT
    • 2008-01-25 22:53:50 Cas Wolan - Saskatchewan
    • 2008-01-26 18:57:41 Brendan McCaskill - Manitoba & Nunavut
  • No (0)
  • Abstain (0)
  • Did Not Vote (2)
    • Amir Izadi - British Columbia & Yukon
    • Steven Younger - Ontario


Reference: Board of Directors forum.

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