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Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association of Canada
Association Canadienne de Vol Libre
 
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IPPI

 
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Ihor Trufyn
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: IPPI Reply with quote

It's a fact that to fly XC in Germany and Austria you have to have IPPI5. You can fly unsupervised at any site with IPPI4, but you can't leave the area (or however they define XC over there).
http://www.fai.org/hang_gliding/safety/ippi/usage/austria
http://www.dhv.de/typo/fileadmin/user_upload/monatsordner/2004-06/Ausbildung/GERMANFL.pdf

To get IPPI5 (also known as Safe Pro Brown) it looks like you have to have a Master rating in Canada.

IPPI Safe Pro 5. BROWN / HPAC RATINGS 5. ADVANCED & MASTER with HAGAR Endorsement Mandatory
http://www.hpac.ca//pub/doc/ippi.html

The HPAC Master rating requirements are:

13. The HPAC/ACVL BoD will award all Master Pilot ratings.
14. Pilots seeking a Mater Rating can apply in writing to the President. In the application, the candidate must describe his/her accomplishments and contributions to the sport of hang gliding and paragliding. Alternatively, a HPAC/ACVL member can submit a nomination on behalf of a pilot.
15. An applicant for a Master’s rating must have an advanced rating and 250 hours of flight time in the activity for which the rating is sought. Upon reception of an application for a Master's rating, the BoD will rate the applicant's accomplishments against the criteria below. A score of 25 points is required to qualify a pilot for a Master’s rating.
http://www.hpac.ca/pub/?pid=91

I'm not sure why a Master rating is necessary for an IPPI5, but to get it you not only have to have an Advanced rating; you also have to fulfill some kind of community service requirement. This kind of service is admirable and certainly should be encouraged, however, we're talking about just taking a flying holiday to a foreign country here.

Should we perhaps have some kind of additional rating to satisfy IPPI5 requirements without having an HPAC Master rating? Can we negotiate with FAI or the German and Austrian associations to lessen their requirements? Most countries that I've checked only require IPPI4, or they don't even specify the rating.
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Scare
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 08:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our insurance policy contains (or contained) an "intent to pay" clause. As soon as payment is in the hands of an HPAC representative, the payer is legally covered by our insurance policy. Allowing that rep to be any member just means that we trust that member to deliver the form and payment to us.

Note that the payment has to be made before coverage begins, or any claim is made. Payment to our member/representative. No other witnesses required, we trust our members...
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Fred Wilson
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 01:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IPPI http://www.fai.org/international-pilot-rating-systems is equivalent to ADVANCED & MASTER Ratings. Not Both. Either.
Advanced is a rating. Master is an honorarium in Canada.
In other countries like the USA, a Master Rating is a recognition of pilot / mentor proficiency.
There has been talk of us changing here to a US type Master Rating some time in the future.
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Scare
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 02:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master is a rating. It has skill and experience requirements. It's called a rating too.
http://hpac.ca/?PRD=410
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Mark Carter
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 08:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scare wrote:
Master is a rating. It has skill and experience requirements. It's called a rating too.
http://hpac.ca/?PRD=410


A rating based upon subjective requirements as opposed to objective ones:

"14. Pilots seeking a Master Rating can apply in writing to the President. In the application, the candidate must describe his/her accomplishments and contributions to the sport of hang gliding and paragliding. Alternatively, a HPAC/ACVL member can submit a nomination on behalf of a pilot."

The way I read the HPAC requirements for IPPI 5 -> there is ambiguity that should be cleared up. If all that is required is Advanced (if it is truly an either/or), then that is all that should be listed. There should be no mention of Master for IPPI 5.
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Scare
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 01:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only quoted the point that supports your idea, you missed the following one:

"15. An applicant for a Master’s rating must have an advanced rating and 250 hours of flight time in the activity for which the rating is sought. ..."

Following that there's a whole list of services, responsibilities, certifications, competitions, and/or records.
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Fred Wilson
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 06:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Carter wrote:
There should be no mention of Master for IPPI 5.

This from someone yet to experience their first run in versus EU bureaucracy?
The IPPI requires a cross reference to Masters Rating the same as for any other Cdn rating.
No IPPI = no fly at most EU sites.

Todd Andrews wrote:
So, the question remains - what does a visiting pilot need to fly an HPAC site - any site?

Hey Todd. Your HPAAC has to a new website http://hpaac.ca/flying-sites

Ratings / experience recommendations for a site vs qualifications should be done by the local club, based on experience in various conditions.

Examples:
Mara at http://www.flyok.ca/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137
Woodside at http://www.westcoastsoaringclub.com/sites/mt_woodside_safety.php

Site Guide Template - Information needed re: new sites.

But Todd, you raise a good point. The USHPA has just up-scaled their Ratings system. A good starting point to cross reference improving ours.

New USHPA SOP 12-02 Pilot Proficiency System Standard Operating Procedure Amended June, 2012 (PDF) See:

http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001ocpBk7ehJGI-9P0yHGrmWxx1cb--eaRWMiEJI_8OeonmQelvc9WDr6Ei0Boh-lwS1fZEgyjBjPeqkLWkhuZl99rA_RT7pstfS4L1C_JPS18voFc34lrh6eS485lK7Qhq7rgdGalGJxbVBpuOA09hSQ==


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Scare
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred Wilson wrote:
requires that it have a cross reference to the IPPI just like any other Cdn rating.


We have no such requirement for any of our ratings.
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Fred Wilson
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote the sentence ass backwards. edited. The IPPI needs to cross reference.

Todd Andrews wrote:
there's nothing stopping them from flying any other HPAC site with their new insurance.

Vol Libre = Free Flight = there is no Air Police.

Without a mentor system in Canada, any Site Monitor program or some such is indeed a distant possibility.

Local pilots are usually willing to give advice (or via their Site Guide information.)
What the pilot chooses to do from that point on is their decision and their responsibility from that point on.

We live with an implicit trust in other national associations ratings and instructional systems.
__________________________

From the Saskatchewan Hang Gliding Yahoo Group

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