HPAC/ACVL
Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association of Canada
Association Canadienne de Vol Libre
 
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Advertise this Forum Reply with quote

Maybe the forum details should get published in yahoo groups and the mags.

Marlene
PS The commercial aviation ones are very popular.
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Scare
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 05:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya. Let's let the Team chew on it a while first and beat it into shape. First impressions and all that. I'm not "married" to the En/Fr/Bi Public/Private arrangement that it has now, just an idea.

I'm considering creating an automatic translation mod, so that messages in one language are automatically translated to the other, as best as Google can do (which Dom is impressed with), maybe in the same message, maybe into the other language forum.

I may still end up wiping the message database, and/or changing the forum setup.
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Serge Lamarche
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 37
Location: Golden
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 06:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO Scare,
Automatic translation is brainless. You will not get readable tests out of it. Only jokes. It's better than it was for sure. But not worth much.
The result will just be confusion. Very counterproductive. Getting any hails lately?

Serge.
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Scare
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 02:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automatic translation is better than no translation, as long as it's marked as such.
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Serge Lamarche
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, you could at least invest in a decent french-english dictionary.
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Scare
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you bitching about? If someone really wants to know what someone else is saying, even rough machine translation will be a help in figuring it out.
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Serge Lamarche
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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Location: Golden
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qu'est-ce que je "bitch" about? Disons que si je commencais à écrire en français et que tu te servais de ton traducteur au lieu de prendre un dictionaire comme normal, peut-être que tu trouverais ca emmerdant. Tu pourrais au moins te procurer un dictionaire pour vérifier si tes traductions ne sont pas complètement gagas!
'scuse mon français.
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Scare
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 01:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you see, there you go, you've just proved my point, thanks! You wrote in French, which I don't read very well, but I don't have the time to dig through a dictionary to translate your message (nor are the next 100 people to read it either, and what a lot of duplicated effort that would be!), especially since I didn't believe your message had anything in it that I'd really care to read anyway, so I wouldn't have done it at all and skipped your message entirely. With the translation there, I could see right away that, yes, there was nothing there worth wasting my time on.

A machine translation system takes a little effort from both the reader and the writer. They have to want to understand, and they have to want to be understood. That's pretty reasonable, isn't it?!? Without the will to communicate, communication won't happen, no matter what you do! For example, I know that if I use the phrase "flying gear", it may get translated to the word for the metal things with teeth in an automotive transmission, especially the one used for overdrive, so I'd consider using "flying equipment" instead, and avoid colloquialisms and such.
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Scare
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 02:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Google translation that this board's software would get is exactly what you got from Babelfish:
Code:
meh. Nous habitons au Canada. Si les Canadiens qui parlent anglais qui ne peuvent pas lire des Français, alors eux devraient avoir honte d'eux-mêmes. Les Canadiens de langue française qui ne peuvent pas lire l'anglais devraient également avoir honte.
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Serge Lamarche
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't make your point, scare. I made my point. If you want to use google translations for yourself to feel good that the text you can't read was not worth it, go for it. I just say don't serve crap to others because you like it.
And in the website it's bad PR.
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Scare
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather be served generic Kraft-like dinner than go hungry.
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Serge Lamarche
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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Location: Golden
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha! The translation is a joke. If you could read the french version, you'd understand right away the depth of the problem. Your text got translated in french as:

Je serais plut�t servi g�n�rique Papier d'emballage-comme le d�ner que va affam�.

Which is nonsense. Let me translate back in english (no google):

I would rather be served wrapping paper generic like the diner that goes starving.

Oh, (ironic tone) now I see it was not worth taking a dictionary. (normal tone) And this is only one phrase. Do you want to communicate something or amuse/annoy your readers? Do you want the HPAC/ACVL to be taken seriously or taken as a joke?
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Jason Dyer
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Joined: 11 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 07:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I applaud your efforts scare. I don't know french nor do I have the desire to. I can get the jist of the conversation and thats all the matters. Keep up the good work, you can't please everyone.
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Serge Lamarche
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great PR, Cas. Bravo. Clap clap clap. You will infuriate all québécois? And you will think you're smart?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 03:23 pm    Post subject: Not so funny Reply with quote

I don't find the exchange funny either. In fact, it's downright sad and reflects poorly on HPAC and the French-speaking pilot about equally. Major announcements should be put into French if at all possible. The French-speaking-guy could likely translate the announcement easily enough, and might have if asked. Instead he got some attitude and it escalated until both people look bad.

Serge, could you please translate the Race Willi announcement on www.gravsports.com so I can put it up en Francais? I would do it but my French is weak. Perhaps Bernard or Serge could translate the new Nationals announcement for Golden and put it up (maybe done already).

When I was a kid in Alberta French was regarded poorly. Now many parents put their kids into French Immerson schools, and I think that's a good thing that reflects changing attitudes. A little bit of an effort to recognize that we live in a bilingual country is a good thing here, or at least basic respect. If Bablefish is the best we can do then at least it's an effort. Having forums in French and English is also good, that's what most international forums do.

WG
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Serge Lamarche
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 01:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm emailing you the translation, Will.
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Jacques Blanchet
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: tres bonne initiative, bravo. Reply with quote

Bonjour Scare,

malgré les complaintes de certains, moi je dis que c'est super d'avoir mis en place un forum ou l'effort de briser la barrière linguistique est évidente.
Malgré que la traduction semble parfois plutôt bizarre et drôle, nous retrouvons quand même le sens du message.
Je pense que les québécois apprécieront l'effort, je ne pense pas que la communauté francophone sera offusquée de la traduction imparfaite et puis une grande partie de nos membres québécois comprennent quand même un certain pourcentage de la langue anglaise, la traduction google aidera ceux-ci à compléter ce qui manque, en tout cas, moi ça m'aide.
C'est certain que des individus continueront de se plaindre car humain que nous sommes, il y aura toujours quelqu'un pour se plaindre même si tout lui est servi sur un plateau d'argent.
Alors maintenant, lorsque j'écris en français, à quoi ressemble la traduction anglaise ? vous riez un bon coup ?

Et maintenant, pour vous donner des nouvelles de vol, ici on a du superbe temps la semaine lors des périodes ou nous sommes au travail et puis quand arrive la fin de semaine il se met à pleuvoir, venter, orager etc, tout ce qu'il faut pour garder un pilote au sol.
Ha oui, en fait, il fait parfois beau durant le week end,,lorsque nous tenons des réunions par exemple !! ;o)
À mon école, nous avons maintenant une quinzaine d'étudiants qui attendent impatiemment la fenêtre météo qui aura lieu la fin de semaine ou ils sont disponibles et c'est sans parler du staff,,, nos ailes commencent à prendre les fils d'arraignées.


bon, et bien je vous souhaite à tous une belle saison de vol, j'espère bien vous revoir bientôt.

Jacques

ps:Serez vous à la compétition nationale de parapente au Québec ?
ps: et puis, après avoir lu la traduction de ce texte en anglais, êtes vous mort de rire ou complètement offusqués ?
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Serge Lamarche
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Français: Moi, étant bilingue, je trouve ca amusant. Je peux toujours lire le texte original. C'est frustrant seulement pour les unilingues. C'est à dire ceux pour qui la traduction machine est utilisée!
Je déclare ce texte français, alors les anglophones peuvent comparer.
J'ai fait des tests sur un autre sujet affiché (ACVL/HPAC Forum Index » Public » testing translations). Allez voir.

English: Me, being bilingual, I find it funny. I can always read the original text. It's frustrating only for the unilingual people. That is, the ones for whom the machine translation is used!
I post this as french so the english guys can compare.
I did some tests in another post (ACVL/HPAC Forum Index » Public » testing translations). Check it out.
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Scare
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 02:09 pm    Post subject: Re: tres bonne initiative, bravo. Reply with quote

Hey Jacques, thanks for the complements! Yes, it's not perfect but it certainly helped me to understand what you wrote. It missed a few words here and there, like "offusquée" (probably means something like "put off"), "orager" (context implies something like "gusty" or some other bad kind of air), and "wire of arraignées" (now that's a weird one!). Then again, some bits of the translations are more accurate than I would have believed possible: yes, I did "blow a good laugh"!

Google's translation engine seems to work best with short phrases. Punctuation helps. Of course, any little spelling mistake in a word keeps it from being translated right (hey, they should run the input through a spelling corrector first!), and colloquialisms in one language usually don't make much sense in the other. Funny though! When reading machine-translated text you also have to think about how things are said in the original language, what order things are written in, stuff like that.

Yeah, the weather sucks the big one. (Let's see how that translates!) I think it does that on purpose, nice weather during the week, crappy stuff on the weekend. It's been alternating between thunderstorms and solid overcast here. Summer air is moving in. Pretty soon we won't be getting much solar heating at all because the mosquitos will be blocking the light!

No, sorry, it's not very likely that I'll show up at the paragliding nationals.

Does "re-examine" involve latex gloves? (Shudder) It could have chosen a better term for that, like "see"!
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Serge Lamarche
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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Location: Golden
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 03:03 pm    Post subject: parlant de frissons (shudders) Reply with quote

Parlant de frissons, la traduction française précédente me fait l'effet d'un examen de la prostate. Penchez-vous et écartez les jambes ceux qui aiment ca.
Le nouveau forum est bien pratique quand même, Scare. Bravo. J'en profite pour réitérer mon appel pour l'usage de dictionnaires anglais-français par les officiels de l'ACVL.
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