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Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association of Canada
Association Canadienne de Vol Libre
 
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Budget 2016/2017

 
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Do you approve the budget for the fiscal year 2016/2017?
Yes
68%
 68%  [ 31 ]
No
31%
 31%  [ 14 ]
Abstain
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Users Voted : 45
Total Votes : 45
This poll has expired.
Detailed Results

Author Message
Tim Parker
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Budget 2016/2017 Reply with quote

HPAC/ACVL Budget 2016/2017 - ENGLISH

https://www.hpac.ca/files/hpac_budget_2016_2017_english.pdf


HPAC/ACVL Budget 2016/2017 - FRANCAIS

https://www.hpac.ca/files/acvl_budget_2016_2017_francais.pdf
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Nikita Gazarov
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few questions:

- What's the "Website project"? Is there a design document or at least some requirements / goals / rationale for it? Why did its budget go up from $10K to $24K compared to last year?

- Separately from the "Website project" line in the budget, how much did we actually spend on website/IT-related stuff in 2015-2016, including staffing / contracting / third party services costs, and how much do we plan to spend on it in 2016-2017?

- Do we plan to reduce the budget deficit in 2017-2018? Similarity with previous year is a bit worrying in this regard.

Thank you.
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Tim Parker
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 07:22 pm    Post subject: Budget Reply with quote

The website project consists of a complete re-design of the content and software behind the website.

About 7 years ago there was an earlier project to renew the website with a budget of $20,000, of which $10,000 was actually paid out, but the project ended with no new website delivered.
The remaining $10,000 from that project was simply carried forward as a budget item for the next several years but no more was spent. The amount of $10,000 was not an actual/calculated amount that would realistically cover the cost for a new website.

So right now there is a new website is in its final stages of development and which will be completed in early 2017, and the $24,000 budgeted for this is the actual projected cost for this project which will be completed soon.


Separate from the one time cost of $24,000 for the new website, the amount actually spent on day to day website/IT stuff in 2015/16 was not great, at around $3,000, and the amount for 2016/17 will be similar.


With the $35 fee increase taking place ahead of the 2017 flying season, we expect to break even or have a small net income for 2017/18 and future years.
The losses for 2015/16 and 2016/17 are especially high partly because these years include a CSI meeting, which is only held every 3 years and costs $21,000, and the one time amount of $24,000 for the website, so with these items factored out, plus the upcoming fee increase added in, losses like these are not expected to continue.
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Martin Lavertu
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 02:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Having 2 years in a row with 40k deficit does not look too good. Espacilly with revenue less than 150k.
It looks like the effect of increasing 35$ the hpac membership is not taken into account in the
2016/2017 budget. Am I right? The financial year ends March 31st. So we are asked to approve
a budget that has already past 7 months. The financial year 2016/2017 year is almost over.

Would it be more appropriate to approve the 2017/2018 budget that includes the increase
of the hpac membership?

I am extremely worry that more than 30% of our reserve that we have
accumulated over the years will be gone in 2 years.

Thanks,

- martin
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Alex Wedensky
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 02:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I thought I'd be able to just click "approve" and be done with it, but a few questions I'd like to hear an answer to first:

$17,500 for something that can be done over a Skype conference call? I do understand the great value of camaraderie of face-to-face meeting, but with +/-45 grand in the red... I hope you catch my drift.

what is the "Safety" expense, and why is there a 200+ % increase?

"promotion, communication, marketing"? I'd like to see a viable example of this making a _practical_ difference for our Association (in my 10+ years "in the air" I've yet to see one).

Will eagerly await the answers; will vote before the deadline.

Cheers,

Alex
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Dan Hill
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 03:44 pm    Post subject: Membership Fees Reply with quote

Are we aiming to balance the budget? If so, the fee increase does not seem to achieve that in and of itself. Even at the current 969 non-foreign members that will only add an additional $33,915 in revenue (969 x $35).
The other question this raises is, why at the old $140 /member, does the 2015-2016 not add up? 969 members x $140 = $135,660, not the $124,351 recorded on the actual. Is this due to something not seen here such as variable rates by area or delinquent payments etc.? If so, we may also want to evaluate a way to ensure all members are actually paying their fees.
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Martin Polach
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 05:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Budget 2016/2017 Reply with quote

Tim Parker wrote:
HPAC/ACVL Budget 2016/2017 - ENGLISH

https://www.hpac.ca/files/hpac_budget_2016_2017_english.pdf


HPAC/ACVL Budget 2016/2017 - FRANCAIS

https://www.hpac.ca/files/acvl_budget_2016_2017_francais.pdf




Dear Members,

Allow me to introduce myself....As The former National Treasurer for several years in the 90's

As an association our FOCUS was on FLYING.

There were several key focus areas...1. Pay the insurance! (Which considering the current legal atmosphere has remained remarkably stable. [adjusted for inflation])
2. Provide the members with a common forum..(EACH member received a hard copy newsletter magazine..usually quarterly)
3. Instruction and ratings...encourage a strong, viable core of certified instructors..and a constantly evolving instructional system.
4. Encourage competition by offsetting some of the costs of competition for qualified participants.
5. Maintain an administration position to co-ordinate and facilitate membership activities and maintain membership lists etc..

There were approx 1,000 members back then..(about the same as now).

We always ran a surplus..(I would have to dig back into some old files but when i left I believe we had over $70,000. on deposit)

I have paid absolutely no attention to HPAC matters for the last 10-15 years...(paid my dues and went flying!)(perhaps I should not be so quick to criticize BUT)

Therefor you may appreciate that I was SHOCKED when I reviewed the current budget!!!!

The figure that leaps out is over 50% projected as National Office Expenses!!!!!

Just who is getting paid $47.800?? ...how much????? and for what.....??????

$9,000 proposed for promotions? marketing? ..to whom? ..for what?

$17,500 for Annual Directors meeting....(seems very extravagant )

I am not going through this thing line by line but it seems to be totally lopsided toward ..'Home Office Expenses" and very sparse upon the basis of our sport!

i.e. SAFETY....a fundamental underpinning....only $197.93 was actually expended...yet somebody spent $2,221.94 going to a USHPA meeting?????

I do know that I get absolutely minimal communication from this 'National Office Infrastructure" (not even a reminder that my member ship was expiring)

Unless I have internet access (and there are those who do not have it!!!) there is no Newsletter....or dissemination of any information...safety issues..etc

Now I see the Assoc. wants MORE money...(website project $24,000.00???)

Yet there is still a HUGE deposit projected.....I did not realize that Justin was directing the show...

This cannot go on!

Martin Polach
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Tim Parker
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 09:07 pm    Post subject: Budget Reply with quote

The $35 fee increase does not take effect until early in 2017, so does not have much impact on the 2016/17 budget, but will result in increased revenues in 2017/18.

Most of the work with HPAC is carried out daily through e-mails and phone calls, but an ADM is still necessary. The CSI meetings are also very expensive, but the critical work of the CSI could never have been achieved through conference calls.

We will continue to put $5,000 in the budget for safety for the time being, and while the actual expense was low in 2015/16, it will be more in 2016/17 with the completion of the P1/P2 training logbooks which fit into this category.

The national portion of the HPAC membership fee is currently $125, so the revenue figure balances if you take 125 multiplied by 965 renewals, plus $3,746 temporary members = $124,351. The additional $15 or $25 collected is forwarded to the Provincial Associations and is not part of HPAC's revenue.


It is more complicated and expensive to keep the sports of hang gliding and paragliding self-regulated than it was a few decades ago.

The $47,800 under 'salaries and subcontracting' consists of the $36,000+GST for the executive director and $10,000 for translation and programming.

With promotions, communications and marketing, the total expense may be $8,900, but $1,600 is recovered through sales of calendars and logbooks at cost.
So of the 7,300 net amount, $3,000 is to cover the costs of the on-line newsletter, which is essential, while the other $4,000 is mainly for the cost of most of the calendars which go into the welcome packages. The 2017 calendar is already in production, but we will reconsider the value of producing a calendar and may discontinue it after 2017.

With the USHPA meetings, our executive director maintains close ties with counterparts at USHPA, BHPA, and other associations and there is great value in this for HPAC.
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Bruce Busby
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 02:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
It looks like Tim has been carrying the water on this topic for a while. He's clearly detailed the expense items and by now you all should have the impression that the one time events and the events that happen on a 3 or 4 year cycle brings great value.
Running the HPAC in these times is a very different endeavor than it was when I began 25 yrs ago. We're playing a much bigger game and are visible to the world now. The counsel of senior instructors was formed in 2012 and met again in 2015. We recognize the huge expenses but frankly speaking, our rating system was nothing short of broken. Our organizational renewal process is nearly complete as in our soon to be released website (not just the pretty pictures site, but he full admin integration site). We've found ourselves on the defensive with a few injury related lawsuits. These are costly and troubling but must be answered. We've also been asked to remove the minor's exclusion in our insurance policy. We'reworking on some options for this.
Our budget will, of course, return to the same sustainable level that we've enjoyed in the past. We just need to clear some of these infrequent expensive items from our list. I recall a time not that long ago when Tim was concerned about how much surplus we had accumulated and cautioned us against a potential CRA issue.
We take the stewardship of the HPAC's money very seriously and as such, you have my assurance that the coming years will have a rebuilding theme for our reserves.

Bruce Busby,
President HPAC
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Alex Wedensky
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for the answers; I do not find them satisfactory. I am voting against the budget.
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Dennie Shipley
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 06:38 pm    Post subject: Costs Reply with quote

I must agree that we need to cut expenses. Our organization is too small for this sort of output. Between HPAC, WCSC we are paying too much plain and simple. IMO. I care not for a fancy website and when I see the amazing work our people have done for the WCSC site. Perhaps ask a school of student web designers to design it for free. We are a small Non-profit. I also agree that our seniors instructor forum did not need to be a face to face. I understand that we want our ratings system to be recognized world wide but, We are not Europe! We are a small little group trying to protect our sport. I personally feel that the Senior instructors meeting was about legislating protectionist rules for commercial interests in the sport, justified as in the interest of safety and protecting our insurance.
IMO-
Travel expenses and offices expenses need to be cut!
Anything existential of flying needs to come last. (Websites)
Basically the whole administration of our organization needs a cut!
We are 1000 members. We need to remember that.
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Dennie Shipley
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 06:41 pm    Post subject: Aero Club Reply with quote

Why are we giving the Aero Club money?
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Amir Izadi
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 08:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Aero Club takes our money so we can get recognized by the FAI for world records and world championships and WPRS ratings for comp pilots. I agree it's too much, but it's not negotiable.

The CSI meeting has happened twice I believe. Once the ratings are sorted, it's probably no longer necessary, but perhaps a senior instructor can speak to that.

The USPHA meetings are for collaborative work to see the issues that they are dealing with and to learn from each other.

The directors meetings are necessary to get through all the nitty gritty. It's not a fun, social event believe me.

The website is extremely complicated with respect to the database and managing all the membership details. If it was a simple user interface giving you information about a company or product, it would cost a few thousand bucks at most. But the back end is the problem. Every web designer we've approached said it would cost $20-$40k minimum. USHPA have spent about $200k on theirs.

Hope this helps explain a few things.

Amir
ex BC HPAC board member 2006-2010
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Martin Henry
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a conversation with my inbred names sake cousin from Alberta (yes... another Martin !), I too have some concerns about apparent deficit proposed for the upcoming fiscal year.

It seems, based on the three fiscal years represented, we have run deficits for 3 years in a row? To (roughly speaking) the tune of $150,000? From what infinitely deep pool of wealth are we drawing these funds? Simply put, if we cash in our chips today, pay our current liabilities, what is our net worth? What sits in bank at the end of of this fiscal year?

As a past President of this association I understand the difficulties of justifying our national associations existence. I support the HPAC/ACVL but I must offer this cautionary observation:

It is important that the "thing" does not detract from the "purpose". I hope we are not crossing a threshold that sees our association consuming our limited means simply to fuel its own existence. (Something I feared back when I encouraged the implementation of a National Administrator).

With no offence to our administration I humbly suggest we need address our costs and balance our budget. The limited revenue stream of our very small organization can not include any form of deficit planning. There is only one exception to this observation, and that is to run a deficit for a critical shortfall event. We are living beyond our associations means.

Again, to have a better understanding of this budget, I would very much like to know our "net worth".

Thanks

Martin Henry (Past HPAC/ACVL President)
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Tim Parker
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 05:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HPAC has not run deficits for 3 years in a row totalling $150,000.

Here are some facts to clarify:

There has been a significant loss in 1 year, the year ended March 2016, of $42,086.
There is a loss projected for only 1 more year, the year ended March 2017, of $44,446.
There are no further losses expected beyond these 2 years, which as discussed above, include the CSI meeting, website, and major progress on the organizational renewal.

The complete financial statements, which can be viewed under the financial statements topic, contain all the details of HPACs financial position, but to summarize, as of March 31, 2016, HPAC had net assets of $196,173. With a loss projected for the year ended March 31, 2017, that figure would become $152,081 as of March 31, 2017, and is not expected to go any lower as there are no further losses expected after the current year.

For a bit of perspective, as other organizations face similar challenges, USHPA has recently raised their fees by 50%, from US$100 to the current US$150, while BHPA fees are 99 pounds or about $175, so these are comparable to where HPAC will be.
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Martin Henry
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 09:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim, thanks for the clarification.

My mistake for not seeing 15/16 actual versus forecast but I still read by your reply that we are taking a $80,000 + hit over the the 15 through 17 budgets. ($40,000+ 15/16 actual and 16/17 forecast).

That said, this is a slippery slope. As a member I am concerned we are living beyond our means.

Again... absolutely no offence to the current directorship as it is nothing but a thankless task but we appear to have fallen into a trap where the organization consumes more then it provides. The HPAC/ACVL has always faced the daunting task of balancing its expenses against its ability to provide a service and justify its existence to this vast and diverse country. With our membership (arguably) remaining static, this will continue.

I don't want argue the budget line by line but suffice to say, we need to tighten our belts and proactively anticipate our "real" needs. We should not be planning/budgeting deficits.

As to anticipating future expenses, we can rely on wishfull thinking but we already see two budgets with deficit planing, two events creates a trend.

I also would like to toss in our USHPA freinds to the south not only increased thier membership fees, they picked the pockets of members to the tune of a million (US) dollars to desperately self fund thier insurance (and the jury is still out regarding this solution/move.... ).

Martin
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Dennie Shipley
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 06:52 am    Post subject: Budget Reply with quote

First of all I think we may need to look at dumping Aero club. I don't see the value for the money. Too much money unless we specifically need FAI status.
Where are we at with the present lawsuits? What are the lawsuits? The one we won? What did we win? A lawyer bill?
Has there been any new law suit launched by our previous Translator after the BOD evicted him from the organization?
I personally think there has been a lack of communication with the membership. Meeting minutes?
Originally when I would read the communications I'd think. "Cool, they all flew up to Jasper to open the first site in a National Park." "Oh hmmm they flew here, and so on...." Then the BOD posts a budget in serious deficit and declares we need to raise Dues. (I do agree our dues are on the cheaper side)
I'd like to see the billable hours breakdown for the administration. How much are we being charged per hour? How many hours we charged for trips ect? What is our main goal? Pay insurance? How Much was that? $35K How much did we spend on administration? $45K How much on a seniors instructror meeting? $18k I think you see my point.
I commend our BOD on their ambition, I really do. But we need to wrangle in expenses.
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Tim Parker
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 05:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aeroclub has been discussed at the last few ADMs - we don't like the increasing cost of it, but have been deciding to keep it.

But there is time to not renew for next year if it was decided that HPAC is prepared to lose whatever the benefits of Aeroclub membership are for 2017.
The Aeroclub bill is received and paid in mid-March, so the $7,000 amount in the budget for this item has not been paid out yet.
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Mark Carter
HPAC/ACVL Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 07:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Budget Reply with quote

Tim Parker wrote:

With the USHPA meetings, our executive director maintains close ties with counterparts at USHPA, BHPA, and other associations and there is great value in this for HPAC.


I maintain close ties with my counterparts in India, China, South America, and Europe - all via Skype. Time to leverage technology to help tighten the belt.
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